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Lex · Private

Greets fellow SOWsters, it's your old buddy Lex dropping-by to say hello !!

Fumi dropped by my gaming homepage and dropped a greet in the Shoutbox, and Blade and I have been chatting on ICQ as well, so I figure the least I can do is drop by now and then

In case anyone cares

here's what I've been up to...

My trusty ol' Shifter-inspired RevMod2 for Tribes 2 is almost done, in more ways than one. The T2 community is, unfortunately now all but gone. Starsiege: Tribes beats T2 in player counts almost every night. I'd love to see some matches in Rev again but there's only so much I can do...

But... get this, the original Tribes also beats Tribes: Vengeance player counts every night. As I expected would happen, Vengeance is an exercise in mediocrity. It's not holding player attention like the previous Tribes games have in the past. I know why, and I've made my opinions clear. The TribalWar jerks won this time, and it's kinda sickly satisfying to see them get what they want, and not know what to do about it

I passed on Battlefield: 1942, because waiting around for vehicles seemed like a stupid thing to do with my gaming time... and because I really disliked the netcode. I bought Battlefield: Vietnam, but I don't know why I expected these two major issues to change. Sorry I haven't been able to join-in the SOW action with these games but I've been busy, and the games just don't get me excited.

But then along came Half Life 2.

I just got the "Grav Gun" last night in the single-player game, and I gotta say, this game and its new Source engine are the cat's ass.

I have no idea how far I'll be able to get with it, but I've started to think about a mod for HL2 that will re-create the sci-fi battlefield-style play that I most enjoy. The engine seems capable and suitable (though we're still waiting on the SDK). Counterstrike is just so... clausterphobic. Vehicles, massive battlefields, teamwork, strategy... that's what I crave. Because I haven't found anyone working on something similar, I've announced T3. Check the link in my sig for more or click here to go right to the T3 forum.

LeHasardeur · Captain

Hey Lex ! Cool to hear from again.

Just make a good Shifter/Revolution-mod kinda thing for Tribes V and then come back and play it with us ...

Fumigator · Lieutenant General

Good to hear from you Lex.. always.

I say we start with Has' idea then move to yours.

Lex · Private

QUOTE (LeHasardeur @ Nov 20 2004, 01:53 PM)

Just make a good Shifter/Revolution-mod kinda thing for Tribes V and then come back and play it with us ...

Hey LeHas

How ya' doing ?

Only a few massive problems with your idea...

1) The Vengeance SDK is still nowhere to be seen.

2) Vengeance suffers from horrible netcode. Plus the Unreal engine's online renderer "cheats".

3) Vengeance has less player appeal than the original Tribes... and that's today.

4) I can't stand Vengeance. I'd prefer to play Unreal Tournament 2004, and that's not saying much.

If you don't believe me about HL2, cut some lawns and save-up the US $50 to buy it online from Steam (that way Sierra gets nothing and all the money goes to the developer Valve).

It's truely a radical release, not only because it looks awesome, but because it was designed with multiplayer in mind... unlike Vengeance, which was designed with the single-player missions in mind. Sad but 100% true.

Finally... if I'm going to learn about a new engine, I'm putting my money on HL2's Source. It's kind of a pity moving away from T2 / Torque, as it's such an elegant engine for scripting and for client/server netcode... but Source just blows everything away from a technical standpoint.

Lex · Private

QUOTE (Fumigator @ Nov 20 2004, 02:21 PM)

Good to hear from you Lex.. always.

I say we start with Has' idea then move to yours.

Hey Fumi, I wish it was that easy... Revolution/RevMod2 took literally years to get to a mature (and stable) point, and Tribes 2 was perhaps the most moddable PC game ever !

HL2's Source engine simply blows me away. It's a fantastic piece of technology. I want to do T3 not only because it seems like a good idea, but I also want to get to know this engine from the inside-out.

Fumigator · Lieutenant General

i hear ya Lex, but still... there's nothing like running around with your buds trying to snatch a few flags.

LeHasardeur · Captain

Yeah ... Tribes Vengeance has it's quirks and I also liked T2 better - gameplay-wise. I think its a good way if developers try to make something new instead of just warming up old stuff again and again. Of course they can never know how the audience will like it ... and in this case most ppl seem to have wanted something different.

Nevertheless I still find TV entertaining and I have fun. Probably it will get boring faster then e.g. Shifter in T1, but then there are still new games.

I surely will get HL2, since it will be a "standard work" in gaming history, that anybody who calls himself a gamer, must have played - no matter if he likes it or not. Just like every man has to read some standard works like the Bible (uhhh ... not really entertaining), Lord of the Rings (I liked it) and the Playboy with Pamela Anderson (was ok, but I still don't find her so hot).

Lex · Private

I think you gotta be in North America to understand Pam's whorish sex appeal LeHas

I think it's that she's hot especially cuz she's got a whiff of skank action goin'

Unfortunately, T:V has all too much whore-action going for me to be entertained. Everything I fought against, happened. Everything I fought for, was ignored. If you guys enjoy it, go for it, but I bet it won't last, and that's where I'm hoping my efforts will come-in, just in time, with T3.

As for HL2.. my first couple of hours were a bit frustrating, the puzzles and the physics had me second-guessing.. but day 2 and 3 were simply amazing, I keep stopping to marvel, keep turning back on the watercraft to try new stunts, and I keep wondering what a massive muliplayer vehicle-heavy battle mod would be like on this all-new engine...

BladeNY · 1st Lieutenant

Way to put into perspective Has, lol. Nice to see ya Lex, though it may be some time before I get HL2 just dont have the $$ at the moment, got lucky with T:V it came out right after my B-Day so I saved some $$ from that.

outrigger · Sergeant

Hi Lex...we've not met before!

I have a question so ya'll help this poor sap out....

QUOTE

As I expected would happen, Vengeance is an exercise in mediocrity. It's not holding player attention like the previous Tribes games have in the past. I know why, and I've made my opinions clear. The TribalWar jerks won this time, and it's kinda sickly satisfying to see them get what they want, and not know what to do about it

what were the dicks right about? just curious.....I've been out of the tribes talk loop since the very early days of T2....

QUOTE

Pamela Anderson (was ok, but I still don't find her so hot)

Don't worry Has...I don't think much of her either.....too much like a damn cartoon figure or something....i like my women a little more natural....

Whats an SDK?

QUOTE

Everything I fought against, happened. Everything I fought for, was ignored

I'm curious what you wish was there and wasn't there.....

The reason I ask is that everytime I play I am left with this sense of not being satisfied....and I'm not sure if I feel like something is mssing or if something should not be there.....but either way I sure to do miss Shifter T1.....If I could get ahold of the add-ons I always used like cowboy hud and whatever else there was....I'd probably go strike up a game or 2...heh heh....

Lex · Private

QUOTE

Hi Lex...we've not met before!

Greets Outrigger

QUOTE

I have a question so ya'll help this poor sap out....

how many questions ?

QUOTE

what were the dicks right about? just curious.....I've been out of the tribes talk loop since the very early days of T2....

I didn't say they were right about anything... I said they got what they wanted, mainly "jetpacks and skiing, jetpacks and skiing, vehicles suck, big maps suck, mods suck".

QUOTE

Whats an SDK?

Software Development Kit. Absolutely needed for Unreal-based game mods. Nowhere in sight as yet for T:V last I checked.

QUOTE

I'm curious what you wish was there and wasn't there.....

Bigger, better, game. Vast terrains, vehicles that are powerful yet don't necessarily need teamwork (but get proportionately better with teamwork action). Vehicles that are easy to obtain. Hassle-free inventory stations and hand-held + deployable object purchasing. A renderer that works well with online gaming. Network code that can easily handle 40+ players.

Those are the basics. Is that too much to ask ?

QUOTE

The reason I ask is that everytime I play I am left with this sense of not being satisfied....and I'm not sure if I feel like something is mssing or if something should not be there.....but either way I sure to do miss Shifter T1.....If I could get ahold of the add-ons I always used like cowboy hud and whatever else there was....I'd probably go strike up a game or 2...heh heh....

You can get Tribes 1 for free at FilePlanet, and Tribes 2 is still sort-of free with some links on my page ( www.lexor.tk ). T1 Shifter was certainly a "sweet spot" as far as Tribes gaming goes, in my experience anyway

The T1 Shifter mod is still played today.

outrigger · Sergeant

QUOTE

Those are the basics. Is that too much to ask ?

of course not! LOL

thanks for the info!

I've never been crazy about this move towards dumbed down controls for vehicles..the whole steer whichever direction you look with your mouse I hate....like joint operations...terrible move if you ask me.

I still have my copies of T1 and T2....I may just break it out....(knowing me though...I'm still too lazy to do it! LOL

BladeNY · 1st Lieutenant

most of that can be corrected by making a mod, but the netcode and renderer cant correct?

MicroMitch · Corporal

Lex,
You would be surprised what you can do to T:V using the tools of Unreal just because it shares the same entire bloodline it seems like.

I already have a MOD in development, and I hope that T:V releases the rest of the tools we need just because I went as far as I can go with the Unreal utilities I have found.

Lex · Private

Hey MicroMitch, long time no see !!

You're not alone, a lot of folks did as much as they could on the Unreal tools and are waiting patientily for the SDK.

I have no doubt that folks like you will make Vengeass tolerable.

But beware... this is supposed to be a Tribes game, right ? Tribes and Tribes 2 were exclusively online titles.... well not only is there still no T:V SDK, the dedicated server wasn't even ready on release. Oh and the price of T:V has been slashed to $29.95 already. Just don't expect a lot (any?) support from Sierra / VU Games ...

The bare facts are: the contracted developers had a mandate to deliver a single-player game, and that's what they did. They were given a timeline and they fulfilled their obligation. Online was a tack-on, which is fine as long as you feed the community... which they haven't.

Here's the big problem: The T:V designers (Marketing reps who contracted a single-player game developer) figured that arena/basketball style of play and "jetpacks and skiing, jetpacks and skiing" were the cornerstone of Tribes.

They were dead wrong.

Tribes is a vast game blending strategy, action, tactics, vehicles, and teamwork. But I don't have to tell you guys

Blade... those are fundamental problems that have kept me from playing every single Unreal game online. The renderer seems to "frame skip" player models all over the place... and the netcode is, well, pretty bad. T:V can't play a 32 player game right now, and the vehicles appear unusable with any amount of lag.

Remember that Dynamix created Tribes... and Dynamix created Tribes 2. I just can't jump on the T:V bandwagon just because it's named Tribes. Sorry, perhaps I'm getting old...

soooo.... instead of spending time re-writing Vengeass to be a tolerable Tribes game (and waiting for SIERRA to support me), I'd prefer to plan a big vehicle shooter on the newest, biggest engine designed for multiplay. In two years, I am betting Vengeance will be dead and buried. In two years on Source, T3 mod will probably just be getting started.